In our increasingly polarized world, how do you break through the noise and mobilize people to care for your cause?
We know digital networks create echo chambers that widen the divide in our increasingly polarized world. So, how do you break through the noise and get people to care about your cause?
In this episode of Ampersand, we chat with Alvin Singh, Director of Communications and Advocacy at Vancity Community Foundation, about how to mobilize people in the digital era. Is digital connection enough to get people to show up for the causes they care about? Or how can those advocating for change rally not only their supporters but also win over the convincible middle?
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Caitlin Kealey: Welcome to Ampersand, the podcast helping good people be heard and comms people be better. I'm Caitlin Kealey the CEO of Emdash.
Megana Ramaswami: And I'm Megana Ramaswami, Senior Strategist at Emdash. So on this episode, I sat down with Alvin Singh, the Director of Communications and Advocacy for Vancity Community Foundation.
Caitlin Kealey: Finally, you got to talk to a fellow West Coaster.
Megana Ramaswami: Yes, it was very exciting to talk to somebody else who also lives in the beautiful city of Vancouver. And Alvin is actually really well known here. He has a lot of experience in campaigns and communication spaces because he previously served in the office of the Mayor of Vancouver during the COVID pandemic.
Caitlin Kealey: Geez, that must have been a really hard job and probably a fantastic learning experience. What's he doing now?
Megana Ramaswami: So now he's joined the Vancity Community Foundation at a time of growth and he's going to be using his experience and leadership to onboard new tools and tactics to help Vancity Community Foundation grow their audience.
Caitlin Kealey: So it sounds like this episode will be really good for those who are in a similar spot in an organization, either new and trying to grow a team or introducing new programs to reach new audiences.
Megana Ramaswami: Exactly. And how to employ any new tactics that we're seeing out in the communications world right now. So let's get into it.
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Megana Ramaswami: So I'm going to start with an icebreaker question, and I think it's something that'll be very familiar to all of our listeners and to many of us. But if you want to share a memory from either your first computer or maybe your early days on the internet.
Alvin Singh: Oh man.
Our first computer was so brutal. Um, but I, I won't even talk about it. Like it was, it was at a time, I'll quickly say this story though, because it reminds me of my dad. He, he really wanted us to have a computer and he sought out these, there used to be this like huge proliferation of these tiny little computer stores.
Like you wouldn't go to like, I don't know, like a, like a Dell or something, you would go to this like tiny little computer store and this guy would like convince you that this was the only computer you would ever need to buy for the rest of your life. And my dad was like, okay, let's do it. And it was just garbage.
It was horrible. But anyways, um, I'll tell, I'll tell a funnier story. Um, so I'm, I'm, uh, in my forties, I just turned 40. And so that'll, that'll kind of help your listeners peg where on the internet spectrum I was. So I was there at the beginning. And in high school. The internet then was very similar to the internet now in that there was a lot of surveys and, and quizzes and, you know, floating around.
And, uh, one of them that kind of made its way through our high school was, uh, by, uh, Cosmopolitan Magazine. And it was a quiz, you typed in your name, and it would tell you how fashionable your name was. And so everyone was doing it, and I did it. And the answer for mine came back “So out, it will never be in again.”
Um, yeah.
Megana Ramaswami: That is rude, Cosmo.
Alvin Singh: Yeah, oof, I know. I know, so.
Megana Ramaswami: I don't think you're the first person to experience that kind of pain with those internet quizzes. I remember many myself that broke my heart, so I totally understand.
Alvin Singh: Yeah Cosmo was not a very, uh, empowering magazine back then, I don't think.
Megana Ramaswami: No, and I imagine it had a lot to do with the, uh, perhaps lack of inclusivity.
Alvin Singh: Yeah.
Megana Ramaswami: In any case, Alvin is in, in our books, just so, you know.
Alvin Singh: Awesome.
Megana Ramaswami: So, uh, you know, I think you kind of started getting into this a little bit, but tell us about how you got started in communications.
Alvin Singh: Yeah, I mean, yeah, like I said, I mean, in a lot of ways, like everybody gets into their field in, in so many different ways, but often you're kind of in the right place at the right time and you find something that you really love. And I was, really, really lucky to go to a high school in Vancouver, uh, that was, that was really, really big and had a ton of different programs.
It, uh, it's called Vantech and, um, it was considered an inner city school, but like, I don't know, we, we'd never really thought of it that way. It was this incredible place where you could do woodworking and cooking and engineering and math and science and everything you want to do—philosophy—and we had this really amazing graphic design teacher who developed over many years, a relationship with Apple.
And so we had this huge graphic design lab that maybe every two years would be completely redone with brand new computers from, from Apple. And so I had the like just absolute privilege and, and just luckiness to be able to take three years of graphic design in high school, which was just unreal. And worked with the latest computer and software and just loved it.
And remember, you know, designing CD covers and, and things like that. It was, it was also at the time when like MP3 streaming was, was first, uh, on the scene. And so I remember completely pirating, uh, like an album that I liked and like and designing the cover and everything. And, and it was, it was just such a, an amazing creative place to be with a teacher that was just so incredibly supportive and that just, you know, carried me forward.
So, at that time, not a lot of people had those skills. I went to university. If you could design something, you were immediately like thrown jobs. And then people started to be like, well, can you, can you write the content for this thing that I need you to do? And so did a lot of writing. And so early in my career, doing a lot of design, doing a lot of writing, you just kind of fell into it.
And for most people, the more and more you do something, if you, if you like it, the better and better you get at it, right? And, and obviously like I went to school, learned a lot about writing and literature and things like that, but also just continued to do the work on my own. And, and that's, that's kind of, that's kind of what led me to where I am right now.
Megana Ramaswami: That is amazing. It is so cool that you had an educator that early that was able to, for one thing, let you know what communications might be or what that world would look like, because I'm sure many of us kind of fell into it at maybe a later stage not realizing that that was available when we were in high school.
So that is a very cool experience.
Alvin Singh: Yeah. And sorry, I was just going to add, like, there was, there was the kind of technical side of things, like with, you know, access to the computers and an amazing teacher, but we also had this amazing activist community in the school, and a lot of parents were, you know, anti-war activists and labor activists, environmental activists, and, you know, that kind of permeated itself through the friend group and through the community and through the teachers, and, you know, we, as students, you know, became student activists.
So at the same time that we were learning communications and design and graphics, we were also learning about like the early, kind of, lessons in community organizing and advocacy and things like that. I mean, if I, I think if I had gone to school anywhere else, I would not be here right now. I wouldn't be talking to you.
I'd be in a completely different world.
Megana Ramaswami: Very fortuitous and actually I would love to talk a little bit more about that sort of advocacy side I know that you, you know, had a big part of your career was, you know, working in on a mayoral campaign and then working in the mayor's office. And so I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that sort of confluence of politics and communications that you had in your career.
Alvin Singh: Yeah, absolutely. Um, it was one of the craziest jobs I've ever had, uh, working in the mayor's office for four years, a campaign prior to that, um, in the middle of COVID. Yeah, I, so I've always been interested in, uh, local politics. I think it's, it's the, it's cheesy, people say this all the time: It's the most important level of politics.
I think it's true. It's the level of politics that you're more, uh, exposed to. It's more immediate. It can really, really change people's lives. Um, and I was born and raised in Vancouver and I'm really passionate about this city and worked in municipal politics for quite some time. And so when, uh, I had the opportunity to join, uh, Kennedy Stewart's campaign as Director of Communications uh, it was such an honor and, and, and really, really exciting to be able to do.
And we were coming off, um, like there was a, like a changing, there's a, there's a little bit of a vibe shift in the city where people were starting to really, really feel the pinch of housing affordability. If you were from a lower income background, a racialized background, you'd been feeling this for a very long time, but back, you know, five years ago, it started to just permeate every single type of person, uh, race, class, social, um, uh, like where you were in, in your life and where you were in the city.
And it became such a huge talking point. And it was really, really interesting to be able to come in to the city at that time and work with an independent mayor that had a really strong, um, mandate to, to work on these issues. Um, but then COVID hit, right? And so all of the things that you think you're gonna do in the mayor's office in the city that you love was completely in some ways, like, thrown out the window, right?
Like you, we couldn't meet face to face with a lot of people. We couldn't be out in the community as much as we, as much as we could. And all these issues that we wanted to work on for about two years had to be a little bit more on the back burner because they had, we had these immediate health issues and community issues that we had to deal with.
Um, yeah, so it was, it was an amazing education in how government really works, how responsive you need to be and, and also kind of like how a huge, you know, crisis like that shifts people's relationship with government. I, I remember this happening almost in real time when we were there, that people's expectations of how quickly things needed to change and shift and how responsive we needed to be was just escalating day by day.
And that's not a bad thing, but it's, it's a really, it's, it, it came like that desire for fast, rapid change and innovation is often at odds with how government is set up, right? Like government is set up to be pretty deliberative because the decisions that are being made are pretty big. They involve big budgets and they involve a lot of disruption potentially with construction and things like that.
And so government is set up to be deliberative. And also for democratic reasons, right? People want to have a say. You've got these long consultation timelines. And those two things really butted up against each other. And the mayor called it, um, the “Amazon Prime-ification of, of, uh, policy in government”. Like everybody wanted their thing the next day or the same day.
And so it was, it was an interesting learning experience and also an interesting to see how the bureaucracy and politicians and civil servants could shift to adapt to that. Um, I think you saw a lot more experimentation. I think you saw a lot more understanding that, you know, if you could try something and if it didn't work, you could try something else.
I think Amazon, Jeff Bezos at Amazon has this kind of way of thinking. There's, there's one way door decisions and two way door decisions. And two way door decisions, you can walk through the door, if you don't like what you see, you can walk right back through the door. And most decisions are like that, right?
And so if, if somebody suggests something that the city should do or that the mayor should do, most of the time, it's a two way decision, if all things being equal, just try it out, see what happens. And if it doesn't work, you can go back through the door. And then, you know, if it's a one way door decision, then you've got to like, kind of sit and be a bit more deliberative. But most of the time, it's not that.
And so, yeah, it was, it was really, really neat to try and shift things and try to experiment. I think you saw a lot of experimentation in cities, not just Vancouver, but right across the country. And it's another testament to how immediate local politicians and local government needs to be.
You saw so many really interesting, innovative projects, whether it be pocket parks or, um, pedestrianization, uh, interesting things happening on the street. Um, so yeah, and, and a lot of that stuff is still with us today.
Megana Ramaswami: It's fantastic. I know you talked about how obviously COVID-19 impacted a lot of us in a lot of ways.
And I love that you mentioned that it primarily really influenced the way that we see government and how it tends to work for us. Um, I'm wondering how it impacted your approach to communications and advocacy.
Alvin Singh: Yeah, absolutely. The, again, like that immediate, uh, nature of how, of what people expected government, I thought in some ways, like it was mostly good.
Like what you, what you don't want to ever be in a situation, you never want to be in a situation where people start to be disillusioned with government, where they think government can't do anything. That's the, if you're a pro-democracy, um, pro-community person that believes in the power of collective action, you never want to get to the point where people start to become disillusioned with, with, with that, with that idea.
And so it's a challenge, but it's important that we rise to that challenge. And so, yeah, like the idea of a constant, um, collaboration and reaching out to people in community, finding out how a particular policy change was impacting them was, was really, really important. And it became a big part of my role.
I was the Director of Communications. And so often in that role, you're very kind of. In some ways, you're pretty one way, like you are writing press releases and speeches, and the mayor's delivering them, and the mayor's the, the messenger, and you're there to make sure that he has what he needs, and also maybe the media has what they need.
But the role shifted pretty dramatically into, uh, communications and kind of, uh, advocacy community oriented role where there was a lot of outreach. We had a lot of virtual town halls with different parts of the community. And then once the, once the restrictions were lifted a bit, a lot more kind of as in person as you could get in that time.
And even though people are, for the most part, demanding things to change rather rapidly, I think a bigger part of it is they wanted to feel that government was responsive. Even if you couldn't deliver on their, on their ask the next day or the day after, being able to spend 20 minutes with somebody talking with them about what they needed, and really genuinely caring about what they were talking about was, was really, really important.
And so, yeah, the, the, the takeaway from me in, in all of the work that I've done since, and all of the work that I'll do going forward, is that, you know, part of being in government or being in an organization where like, such as the one that I'm in right now at the Vancity Community Foundation, where we're looking to change policy or advocate for change.
And it involves people in coalition building and community. You really do need to remember to take that time to listen. At the beginning, during, at the end, in an ongoing manner, you really do need to make sure that people believe and understand that you're coming to the work from a genuine place of curiosity and interest, and that you're not trying to impose something, you're not trying to change their mind necessarily.
I mean, sometimes you are, but that shouldn't be what people think is your primary goal. Um, you really do need to meet people where they are. And especially now when things are becoming much more polarized, um, online, but even in real life, it's really, really important for people to understand that these are human conversations that are happening between people.
Change happens between people negotiating and bargaining and having conversations with one another. And if you take the time to really listen and talk and to, and like take that extra energy, it really, I think helps people to remember that these are human decisions and not a bureaucracy far away. Not a screen, not technology.
These are humans that are working with other people to change the world and change how they interact with one another. And I think that can help to humanize us a little bit better.
Megana Ramaswami: I love that. And I think most of our listeners can very much, you know, relate to that idea of, um, or that growing realization of listening and empathy and how that impacts the clarity of our work in our communications.
So let's talk a little bit about where you are now at the Vancity Community Foundation. You've arrived, you know, at this organization at a real time of growth. You know, what's that been like?
Alvin Singh: Well, I mean, it's always exciting to be in an organization that's growing and changing. We're really lucky. So Vancity Community Foundation, for those that don't know, we've been around since the late 80s.
We're a public foundation that works primarily in Vancouver, but also in other parts of the province. And we are a separate organization, but we're connected to, we were founded by Vancity Credit Union, which is one of the largest credit unions in Canada.
And so that kind of dual set up, this public foundation — our headquarters are in the downtown east side. We do a lot of work with communities that have traditionally been marginalized. We do a lot of work on affordable housing. We do a lot of work, um, in community economic development, really, really, really important, interesting work, but we're also able to do it with a connection to a credit union made up of members that also care about these things. And so there's a really interesting synergy there that I think is pretty unique in the world of philanthropy and public foundation work. And so to join an organization that has that makeup was really exciting to join an organization that's doing a lot of the work that I was doing at the city but divorced from politics, which can be, um, challenging, was really interesting.
Um, and we also have a, you know, a CEO that's also new. I think she's entering her third year at the organization, Janessa Greening, who came from a background with a lot of social change organizations, uh, just brought a new energy and tone to the organization, a much more of an advocacy, um, approach to change.
And so, we're in a situation where things are getting reoriented. We're investing in a new strategic plan. We're investing in new tools and resources and people all with an eye to being more focused on the community, more present in the community. And to really help to unlock, uh, advocacy for and with community.
Um, one of the, one of the, you know, it goes back to what I was just saying about listening and being empathetic and meeting people where they are, one of the things that's a big part of the culture at VCF is that we're not, uh, imposing an idea onto the community. We're not saying, well, this is the solution to the housing crisis, or this is the solution to economic inequality.
We are spending a lot of time through grants, through relationships, through partnerships with folks that are on the ground doing this work, and we're trying to co-create, uh, solutions to these challenges. And then we try to bring that to, to government. And so it's this really incredible opportunity for me to bring my experience with government, but from a different perspective and communications and advocacy and work in an organization that is doing, you know, a lot of work with community on the ground.
So it's, yeah, it's, it's exciting. It's challenging. We don't have a lot of systems and, and things in place yet. Like I said, we've just put together a strategic plan and from there we'll have a new brand developed and communications materials and things like that. And so, you know, working with a lot of uncertainty for now, but the team is amazing and, um, it's always exciting to, to chart a new direction.
Megana Ramaswami: I think that's a very cool, especially the aspect of this idea of co-creation and being in community, uh, with the folks that you are working for and working with. Um, I think in the spirit of that, do you have, you know, over your career and um, your experience in communications, um, do you want to talk a little bit about the impact of any digital tools or social media or maybe other platforms that have really weighed or heavily on advocacy efforts and, uh, you know, how maybe those have brought, you know, your efforts forward?
Alvin Singh: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it goes without saying that digital advocacy tools, social media, all of this has drastically, you know, irrevocably– I'm not gonna be able to say the word, but it's, it's, it's completely permanently changed the way we do our work. And because of that, I think it's really easy for people to start with the tool.
Like, you know, you hear about a new tool, you want to adopt it because you hear that, I don't know, the Bernie Sanders campaign used it to great effect, or this organization raised a lot of money using it, so we should use this tool. And, and maybe you should, and, and you, maybe you should take a look at it, right?
But I, I think that, um, again, going back to what I was saying about, talking with people and, and being really rooted in, in what it is that you need to accomplish. I think any organization that's wanting to make change needs to spend a lot of time internally first having conversations with their own team to, to answer the question about like, you know, “what is your reason for being, why is it that you're here?
What is your unique, what is your unique makeup that allows you to work on this issue in a way that nobody else can?” And when you can answer some of those questions and, and make some of those decisions about what you want to do and how you want to do it, then you can start to think about some of these tools.
And, and so, you know, Just to name a few, and this is the obvious one, but I think it's, it's, so TikTok is obviously, you know, maybe the largest social media platform, if not the fastest growing one right now, everybody's talking about it in good ways and bad ways, and everybody's on it, um, consuming a ton of content.
And so it's not a new platform in that way, but it feels like on the advocacy side of things, people are just now starting to figure out how to use The platform to create change. And it's really exciting to see, especially what young organizers are doing, uh, using the platform to communicate, you know, labor organizing or climate justice work, um, transgender, transgender rights work, uh, especially in the States where it's an issue that's, that's really, really top of mind for a lot of folks.
And just like any other tool, like people start using the tool, like they did other tools and it doesn't work because they're trying to like basically put YouTube on, on TikTok or put Facebook on TikTok. And then slowly people try to figure out how it works for them and how it works for their community.
Um, and maybe from the outside, if in, you know, TikTok is not my native platform. And so when I see folks doing it, I'm like, well, I don't know, does this really work? And you, then you talk to organizers, like, yeah, no, it really works. And so, you know, it's exciting to see how people are taking these tools and using it for advocacy.
I also think that, you know, we've gone through–as an organizer, you know, I try to talk to people about the new ways that they're reaching people and reaching their constituents. And, you know, it's, it started with, uh, tech around, like, you know, I, I remember when nation builder, like, you know, came onto the forefront and people were using it to, to build lists and, and do all that sort of work and, and a new and new people, new people were being exposed to this technology to, to collect information and go door to door and things like that.
And it's only grown since then. And one of the, one of the things that people are getting back to in that, in that work, is um, organizing in a relational way. And so I think a lot of these tools have kind of were, were, uh, designed and new tools were being adopted to reach more and more and more and more people, because that was how people thought of their theory of change.
If we can build a list, that's 10, 000 people wide then we're going to be able to change this policy and people were putting a lot of money into this. And now there's a lot more effort being put into, well, how do we do this for organizations that don't have a presidential campaign budget? You know, how do we do this?
If you're trying to organize a Starbucks in a small town in British Columbia and the way people, one of the ways that I've seen people do this work is through a more relational way of organizing. So instead of adopting some fancy big tool, you sit down with somebody and you say like, you have the ability through communications with your friends and your family, the contacts that you have in your phone right now to make a change on this issue. And it starts by being pretty scary for people because I think like most people don't want to talk to anybody about social change issues. It's, it's hard. It's scary, especially these days.
You worry that somebody's going to yell at you, but then it's even harder when it's like, well, talk to your dad about this or talk to your aunt about this or talk to your friends about this. And people feel even more worried. Like, oh, I don't want to talk to my friend about like organizing the Starbucks.
But then you can talk to them about, well, you know, this person is your friend for a reason, you have similar values, you grew up in the same town, maybe you maybe you both go to that Starbucks, maybe you both worked at that Starbucks at a certain point. And you know how challenging it is for workers in that sector, just to use this example.
And slowly but surely, You know, this relational type of organizing has really taken off, especially in the States. I think it's newer here in Canada, but it's something that I think when you think about it makes a lot of sense. And so going back to your question about tools, I think getting back to organizing as a community organizing model where you're talking to people that are, that have close proximity either to the issue or geographically. I think it's going to be like a big key to unlocking some of the victories that we need to in Canada over the next number of years. Issues that are hyperlocal, issues that, um, have a big impact on people's lives day to day.
Um, I think that's where we need to be going as a movement, um, to being more relational and community oriented.
Megana Ramaswami: I like that idea of the direct impact, uh, and, and maybe shifting our idea of how these social issues affect us. Not so much seeing it as, you know, You know, a scary thing that we don't want to talk about, but maybe bringing it back down to sort of everyday conversations, I think, maybe over the last few years, I'm curious if you would agree, um, we're seeing more and more people, especially in the communications field that actually do want to sort of move towards this nexus that you've been at for a long time of communications and social advocacy.
Um, what would your, you know, one piece of advice be for somebody who is also trying to move towards that nexus and create a bigger impact with the work that they do?
Alvin Singh: Well, the first thing I would say is, like, find other people that are interested in this issue, right? Like start to build that community that you're trying to get to, and there's going to be no shortage of folks and provided, you know, provided that the issue is, is salient for people.
There's going to, there's not going to be a shortage of people that want to talk about this issue. And so go to where they are. And if you don't know how to do that. Like create an event, create, create a space for people to come and meet you and, or meet your organization and start to build those, those connections.
Um, and then, then they're doing it like that is the first step, right? You're using communications to do advocacy. That, that is what that is. And you start to build that constituency. Um, I mean, if you're new to the field, like, if, if you're listening to this and you're, you know, in high school or you're in early university, um, like my advice to folks is to do as, you know, many different, um, tasks or campaigns or jobs that you can possibly do that interest you, right?
When I was younger, um, and I still try to do this to an extent. It's just harder, as you know, as you get older and you've got like responsibilities and things like that, it's harder to, to kind of, uh, jump into a campaign for six weeks.
But if you can do it, if you've got the ability to do it, if you're lucky enough to be able to, to kind of put things on hold and jump into something, um, fully, you know, work on an election campaign. Work on an issue campaign that is adjacent to an election campaign, um, jump in and meet other people that are interested in doing the work that you're doing because these are the going to be the folks that after the campaign is over three or four months later down the road when you want to create something or they want to create something or you find something that you want to jump into, these are the people that you're going to call.
Or text or message and be like, Hey, let's do this thing together. Um, and so building that network of people that you can rely on and you can bounce ideas off of, and you can learn from is really, really, really important. Um, and it also helps you to exercise those muscles, right? Those like let's be in community and let's, um, use these tools.
And this knowledge and this, you know, this, this technology to help push us forward. Um, and yeah, I mean, it sounds, it sounds pretty glib, but that's, that's what I would say, um, to always be connected to the folks that you admire and are, and are doing this work. The, the other thing I would say, and this is more of a message for folks that are maybe in our stage of our careers or older.
And it's something that like, I've talked to a lot of my friends that are more business oriented or have connections in business. The, the left or the progressive world for a long, long time has, hasn't been as good about mentorship as the business community for whatever, whatever you think that that means, right?
And I think in business, there's this natural, you know, this, this natural networking and mentorship culture where entrepreneurs want to mentor other entrepreneurs and people will take a call and they'll say yes to a coffee and they'll be excited about it. And I can't tell you the amount of times when I've tried to do this as a younger person and even more recently, and you give somebody a call and they're like, why are you calling me?
Or I don't know if I have time for this. And I think as a, as progressive communicators and organizers and people that are in our movement, uh, if you're a senior leader, if, if you're anybody and somebody gives you a call and wants to chat with you for five minutes about, about what it is that you do, if they want to learn from you, like, please, if you can take the time, right?
We need to get better at taking these calls. We need to get better at sharing best practices and sharing information. And not being as worried about what happens if I give this information out, like what, like nothing will happen. It's fine. But these connections that you can build, the way you can change somebody's trajectory, the way that you can make sure that that person remains excited about social change and not put off.
I think it's more important than ever. We need to get back to that. We need to, we need to encourage younger folks to be excited about this work. Um, and I think we can be better and, and we should be better at it.
Megana Ramaswami: I couldn't agree more. And I think our listeners will. I so deeply appreciate the advice that you've given for both early emerging and experienced communicators.
Caitlin Kealey: Well, that's it for this week's episode of Ampersand. Thanks for joining us.
For more comms and design tips, sign up for our newsletter at emdashagency.ca and follow us on your favorite podcasting app so that you don't miss our next episode. Ampersand is hosted by Megana Ramaswami and me, Caitlin Kealey, and it's produced by Elio Peterson. This podcast is a project of Emdash, the small agency focused on big impact helping progressives be heard.