When working on projects that involve survivors of trauma, communicators have a responsibility to work with empathy and care.
As communicators trying to effect progressive change, our work often requires us to take on projects that are surrounded by deep trauma.
At Emdash we’ve had the honour of working on projects involving residential school Survivors and families impacted by gender-based violence. Through this work we’ve learned the need to communicate with respect, sensitivity, and tact.
In this episode of Ampersand, we’re joined by Brenda Reynolds (Mental Health Consultant and Former Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada Health Support Liaison) and Brenda Gunn (Academic and Research Director for the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation) for a deeply-needed discussion about the importance of taking a trauma-informed approach to projects such as these.
Content warning: This episode discusses residential schools and residential school Survivors, which we know are painful topics for many. For immediate emotional support, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, Survivors and their families are encouraged to contact the National Residential Schools Crisis Line at 1-866-925-4419. Indigenous peoples can also access the Hope for Wellness Help Line at 1-855-242-3310 for toll-free, 24/7 counselling and crisis intervention.
This episode is dedicated to the Indian Residential School Survivors' Society.
If you’d like to support their work, the best way you can do so is through a donation if you’re able.
This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email media@emdashagency.ca with any questions.
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Caitlin Kealey
Welcome to Ampersand, the show helping good people be heard, and comms people be better. I'm Caitlin Kealey, the CEO of Emdash.
Megana Ramaswami
And I'm Megana Ramaswami, Senior Strategist at Emdash. Everyday we get the chance to work with some incredible changemakers, so this podcast is a place to bring you some of their stories and give communicators and designers some tips along the way.
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A lot of the work we do at Emdash centres Indigenous survivors of trauma and the need for trauma-informed communications.
Caitlin Kealey
This was definitely a tough conversation with a lot of emotions. I definitely teared up, but it was with two incredible people. One was Brenda Reynolds, a mental health consultant who set up the health support systems for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and Brenda Gunn, who's the academic and research director at the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation.
This conversation was really important, and they gave us great insights for communicators on how to respectfully and sensitively work with Indigenous Survivors and projects surrounding trauma.
Megana Ramaswami
A quick content warning for our listeners. This episode gets heavy and we talk about residential schools and day schools, which can be distressing.
Please check our show notes for the toll-free Hope for Wellness Helpline. It's available 24 hours a day with culturally competent counseling and crisis intervention services for all Indigenous peoples across Canada.
So please listen with care.
[MUSICAL INTERLUDE]
Caitlin Kealey
We are honored to have you both on today to talk about how communication professionals can respectfully and sensitively work with Indigenous Survivors and projects that deal with trauma. Could you each take a moment to introduce yourselves and tell our audience where you're from and what you do?
Brenda Reynolds, we’ll begin with you.
Brenda Reynolds
Hello. My name is Brenda Reynolds and I am from the Fishing Lake reserve in Saskatchewan. And I currently live in Beaumont, Alberta. And I've been working with former students for 34 years since I started in Gordon's, which was an Indian residential school that was opened in Saskatchewan.
But at the time it was, they were, they weren't former students. They were actually still attending school at the time. And I've continued to do the work and as now as a mental health consultant and work with various organizations and still continue to do work with former students and their families and with organizations providing training and support.
And then also in terms of research, I've also done some research on my master's was on intergenerational trauma as a result of growing up in a home where there's former students that are either parents or caregivers.
Caitlin Kealey
Thanks and welcome. Brenda Gunn?
Brenda Gunn
Hi, I'm Brenda Gunn. I am the academic and research director at the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation.
I'm Métis. I'm a citizen of the Manitoba Métis Federation. I joined the NCTR in September, so I've just been in the role for a few months and before I joined the NCTR, I was a professor in the faculty of law at the University of Manitoba, and my research and work over the past 10, 15 years has focused mostly on international human rights law, including the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. And pushing for greater conformity between Canadian law and international law. So the transition to the National Center has been a nice change in my workload.
Caitlin Kealey
So, first question, it's a bit of a broad one, but Brenda Reynolds, how would you describe trauma informed communications? Like what sorts of things do people need to take into account when they're approaching this kind of work?
Brenda Reynolds
I think that it's really important to know whichever population it is that you're working with, whether it's former students, former Indian residential school students or day school students.
It's really important to get to know that history and what does that history look like. And sometimes when we think of history, we think like it's more than a hundred years or whatever it is. But when it comes to trauma in Indigenous communities where that history includes currently, because we also have to think of the systemic issues as well too.
And so when we're looking at trauma, it's not only looking at what actually happened, but what does that look like today and how does that translate into the different areas it is that you're working in. Because sometimes some people think, oh yeah, that happened a hundred years ago and it has no impact today.
And meanwhile it does. So it's getting familiar with that so that you know what it is that you're going to be dealing with and exactly what does that look like emotionally. Because when we're working with trauma, it affects us emotionally. And so we have to be aware of that.
And sometimes we also have to consider our own experience with trauma. I'll just give you an example. It’ll be almost 13 years ago my deceased husband died and at the time, for a few months I just couldn't work with grief because I had my own grief to work with and to go and work in someone else's grief, I couldn't do it.
So it's really getting familiar with what it is that you're going into, but looking at your own self to see if you can walk, walk in that environment of, of trauma that you're working in.
Caitlin Kealey
Brenda Gunn, you've met and worked with many residential school Survivors through your work at the NCTR, and I'm just wondering, do you have like high level takeaways?
Like what have you learned from communicating with and on behalf of Survivors?
Brenda Gunn
I think the starting point for my work and the work that we try to do at the National Center, is about doing no harm and really taking the time to stop and think through how what you're asking from Survivors may cause harm or trigger situations.
And some we can predict by, as Brenda pointed out, doing the research, understanding the situation before you go in. But some, it'll be harder to anticipate. So, for me, the starting point is really taking that time to stop and think through how might this question, how might you know the situation impact someone who's experienced trauma or who is a Survivor of residential schools, right?
And it is hard to anticipate, but you have to spend that time to really reflect and try to approach things in a sensitive way. And then I think the other part for me as, as a research director — so someone who's supposed to be leading in supporting research on the history and legacy of residential schools and working with Survivors — is also ensuring that the work we undertake promotes the agency of Survivors as well.
So that's the sort of second or the flip side to that work of making sure we do no harm. But then I think there's a real responsibility to ensure that the work that I do, that the Centre does, that researchers do on residential schools and their, uh, histories and legacies, is to think about “is the work in my approach promoting the individual and collective agency of this individual Survivor or of Survivors more generally?”
Caitlin Kealey
So that's sort of the nothing about us without us kind of approach, right?
Brenda Gunn
Yes. The Survivors are telling me yesterday again about this. Every time I meet with them, this is sort of their starting point and they were saying to me yesterday, but it's more than that. It's also then about training and mentoring the next generation and assisting intergenerational Survivors and being able to do the work right?
So that I also have a responsibility to train Indigenous peoples to do the research and support the research and work with that. So making sure that people have that space to share and that it is a safe space to share and that, um, their information is respected and believed and acknowledged moving forward, and that continued ability to own the, the stories and their information.
Caitlin Kealey
Brenda Reynolds, do you have anything to add on that or?
Brenda Reynolds
In addition to that too, it's also about establishing relationships and because we can't do the work that we do in trauma situations without establishing relationships. And some of that is building trust and making sure that we communicate in ways that is really clear.
And, uh, and then if there's any expectations, what are those expectations? And explaining roles and responsibilities. But at the bottom line is trust, because we have to remember when we're talking about trauma, there has been abuse of some kind that has been experienced and where people have been taken advantage of and hurt in many ways.
And so we really have to be respectful and try to establish trust because without that trust, we're not going to be able to do the work it is that we have to do, especially when we are advancing the legacy of what it is that has gone on.
Caitlin Kealey
I hear a lot about trust. I hear a lot about empathy and respect.
I think those are all things that we definitely can underline when it comes to communicating with and for Survivors. You've both touched on starting from a place of doing no harm. Are there common mistakes or misjudgments that you've seen communications folks make when executing strategies or their work with Survivors?
Brenda Gunn
I was reading an interesting series of tweets by Angela Sterritt, and she used the phrase of ‘trauma porn’ and the desire of reporters on trying to get detailed information and stories about the trauma and of the harm. That seems to be one of the biggest challenges that sort of really wanting to get into the details and she interestingly connected it to also that need to believe Survivors in that, um, There's a challenge I think, by people still not accepting the truths that Survivors share with us.
And so trying to get details and then we forget the humanity that is connected, that this was actually in person, it was a child to experience these things. And are these questions that you would ask your own child about or your own family member about? Right. Of course. If someone chooses to share details, that's one thing, but that sort of that pushing or prodding for very serious details is problematic.
Brenda Reynolds
One of the things I just wanted to, to comment on that is sometimes when I've seen reporters and they say, you know, can you tell me your story? And, and right away it's like, I, I feel, I feel a pang in my heart. You know, and, and that's related to, this isn't a story, this isn't a story that we just sit and talk about as if it's a storybook or something like that.
You know, we're talking about life filled experiences. Story is completely different than an experience. I actually experienced that. I felt it. So it's being sensitive to the words that are being used. It's being very respectful. If someone's body language is saying, I don't wanna talk about this, you have to be respectful and say, “okay, thank you for your time. I'll move on to someone else who is ready and, and can do that.”
I remember seeing a former student being interviewed at one of the national events and it wasn't a good scene at all. And she was sitting in her chair and the reporter was prodding and prodding and the person had no supports with her. And so when we're asking former students to be sharing what it is that have happened to them, to what their experiences are, is that we have to make sure that they have some support there with them, because even if they look like they're okay in sharing their experiences, we also have to be mindful of how are they going to be after we talk to them?
Because when, when you're asking them about what their experiences are you're opening that up, you're opening up that experience, and so communications has a responsibility to close that up again and leave them in a safe way. And because again, it's that we're not there to be repeating the abuse, we're not there to be repeating the harm.
And so it's really important to make sure whoever it is that you're with, ask them, do you have any support with you? And are you okay to share your experience? And assure them that only what they're willing to share in public is, is okay. I saw this during the commission when we were going across the country and we were gathering statements at, whether it was at hearings or at national events, is that sometimes some former students would say something that their family or their close friends didn't know and, and then afterwards, were really ashamed and really sorry that they had done that.
And so that's why it's so important for them to be prepared and to be given advance notice that that, “yes, I want to interview you” so that they can give informed consent and informed consent is really, really important as well. And what does informed consent mean? And where is my story and experience going to appear? Because if this is going to be a story in a, in a newspaper or, or on internet, how is my experience going to appear?
And then so that when they go and look at whatever it is that it's, it's left in, the final product is left in, is that they feel good about what it is that they have shared and also in terms of, um, of leaving a final product with them is to say, can I send the video recording afterwards to you? You know, like in, because like in some ways communication is, is a form of research, right?
Indigenous communities have said for a long, long time is that researchers will come in and they get, they get all the information, leave, and that's it. But that has changed now where it's whoever it is that you're doing research with, they're a partner with you along the way, and they want to copy of that end product.
That's the reciprocity responsibility that we have as people working in this area. And so it just, here's a video of your, of your recording so that you can have it as a part of your own legacy within your own family.
Darnell Dobson
The following isn't a paid advertisement, it's just us here at Emdash shouting out some good people who are doing important work. You should check them out.
This episode is dedicated to the Indian Residential School Survivor Society.
Since 1994, the society has been providing services to support Survivors, students and intergenerational Survivors because the effects of residential schools are still being felt each and every day.
If you'd like to support their work, the best way you can do so is through a donation, if you're able.
We'll link to their site in the show notes where you can learn more and donate.
Caitlin Kealey
When we were working with the TRC, we came in for the last two years to do comms and media relations, and it was through that work that we learned about, you know, there's basically a rules of engagement for how journalists can function within those spaces.
And I think it was a bit of a trial and error and then, you know, we worked together to sort of put in protocols to protect the Survivors from mostly, I would imagine well-intentioned media. They weren't doing it on purpose, but they didn't understand what they were doing, I think.
And so part of the role is to educate journalists and communicators, and that's part of what we're trying to do with this podcast series is to talk about these issues because I think it's something that more and more people are becoming aware of, you know, what happened with Indian residential schools and now we've got the discoveries of the unmarked graves.
And you know, these topics are gonna be in media more and more and more and Survivors continue to be sort of pushed, pulled, or volunteered into the media limelight. And I think, you know, you made a lot of really good points about the onus on the communications people, but from both sides, right? Because part of, you know, as my role as a communicator is to ensure that the Survivor understands what I'm asking of them and where it's gonna be and how it's gonna be treated.
And I agree with you, and I think that not everybody might do that with the same level of respect. Are there other things, Brenda G, that you think communication professionals could do better to prepare Survivors for media events or public appearances?
Brenda Gunn
One of the things that I've even had to learn in my little stints media is just like, media wants 10 minutes of your time, and they're gonna come in and they're gonna give you, you know, an hour's notice and then they're gonna want what you have to say in 10 minutes and then they're gonna go. And so, I think along with what we've been saying, it's about just slowing down that process, making sure that there's time before and after for the Survivor to ask the media person the questions they may have and make sure that they understand what is being asked.
And then, along the lines with what Brenda was already saying is just that opportunity at the end to just double check, “Are you okay with what you shared?” Right? That there may be after the fact reassessment of what was shared. And I think that being really clear at the end with like, are you okay with where this interview went is really important.
And giving that time and space to reflect in a way that is not sort of normal practice for a short media interview. Right. And so I just, I, I think there's more time that might be needed than what some media professionals might be used to.
Caitlin Kealey
The media. It's a churning industry of who's first to get the story.
How fast can you get it out? Like it's the literal opposite of what you've just said, right?
Brenda Gunn
Yes. I'm not necessarily talking hours either, right? But like recognizing that, you know, 10 minutes may or may not be enough time for someone to share their experiences. I would encourage all media professionals to have a list of health supports that are right there and at the end of the interview, when you're doing the check-in, that if they don't have the health support there, that the person who has done the interview knows a few basic referral services that they can pass the Survivor along to.
You have to have that in your back pocket, right? So that at the end when you're checking in, how do you think that went? Do you have supports? If you need any resources, here are some that I'm aware of there may be others as well.
Caitlin Kealey
That's a really great idea. I really like that. Going back to the, the idea of trauma porn and all of the things that that entails, I think there's this, and it may not be new to you folks, but it, it's something I've noticed in the work that we're doing.
There is a pushback on leading with the trauma, and now it's a “we wanna be more positive and we wanna stop telling the experience that is about the trauma and to look to the future and the strength and the hope and to tell about the strength of Indigenous peoples in this country”. And I think that's an interesting movement.
I don't know if it's new or not, but it's something that I'm starting to see in the messaging that we're working with and I'm wondering if either of you have noticed this.
Brenda Reynolds
I don't know if, if I, if I have, but I know that I've been, I've been also talking about it, about how yes, we have to remember the legacy, we have to remember what that looks like.
Yes, there is a lot of resilience within the Indigenous community, but we also cannot overlook at what it looks like today. We cannot overlook the systemic issues that we have. Because if we only—so before we focused on the trauma, went to resilience, we're still evading what it looks like today because if we don't talk about the the systemic issues, we're saying, oh yeah, like it's all fine.
When it isn't all fine. There's systemic issues in health and with justice and education like in so many different sectors, and there's so many different ways it is that it can be addressed. We're talking about trauma that has been the Indigenous experience for more than 150 years. One of the other things too, is that when we're working with trauma and we're working with Indigenous people within our cultural practices, we have protocol and if we go and ask someone to share something with us, we have to do the protocol.
Because otherwise we're taking and asking for something for nothing, right? And so the protocol for us is to give tobacco and say, “I'm giving you this tobacco to, to share something with me. This is what I'm looking for and I'm looking for this. And can you, can you share that with me?” And so there's that respect right there to do that, right?
And, and then in communications that that isn't there, you know? That isn't there. Like I, you know, like I haven't seen anybody give tobacco or even just acknowledge the respect that somebody is giving of themselves to, to share their experiences. And so it's not only getting to be familiar with the trauma, but it's also getting to, to have some cultural sensitivity as well.
Brenda Gunn
On your question about some of the shifting of the narrative that people have been pushing for, they have a very valuable teaching that I got from Elder Bone, who is someone that I've worked with a long time, and he has always said that we should start with who we are as Indigenous peoples. We don't start with the trauma.
I think that's a lot of how I try to do my work, it's how I try to train my own students, my law students, when they're writing about Indigenous peoples, start with who we are as Indigenous people. Start from that place of power. Or Brenda was talking about the, you know, resilience. But that doesn't mean we eschew the actual issue, right?
But it just means we're centering Indigenous people's power and agency at the beginning and then talking about the impacts that Canadian legal systems in, in, in a lot of my writing and work have had on Indigenous peoples and sometimes then, it's about ending, again, coming back to that agency and resistance.
And so I think it's important that we continue to tell the truth of colonialism in Canada and the ways in which Canada has engaged in intentional genocide against Indigenous peoples. That starting with who Indigenous peoples are as peoples is really important to both Indigenous peoples to be able to see ourselves from that place of power, but also from the perspective of Canadian society to not just see us as victims, right?
And so I see it almost in this sort of sandwiching approach as to how I work in, in some of my writing and work so that we, we get to that point of: colonialism has had huge impacts on our communities, but that that's not the full story. Right? And, and that isn't, and shouldn't be our starting point of the story.
Caitlin Kealey
So working in these tough topics, I mean, obviously it's not always easy and as Brenda Reynolds was saying earlier, when she had too much grief, she couldn't work with other people's grief. So I guess, can we just take a little bit of time and talk about how you protect yourselves and how you check in with yourself and how you make sure that you're okay at the end of the day?
Because I think one of the things that we learned the hard way, uh, doing this work is that, especially as a settler, I was like, “I, I'm okay. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine.” But eventually I was like, “oh wait, I'm not fine. This is really awful and I don't know how to take care of myself.” I, it took me a while and, you know, it's an ongoing process.
So how do people working in these very tough subject matters make sure that you know, while they're doing the work, they're also not then traumatizing themselves?
Brenda Reynolds
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think that I talk about self-care quite a bit, and self-care is a way of life. And the way of life that I look after myself is that every day I wake up in gratitude and I go to sleep in gratitude and, and just the simple words of “thank you.”
Thank you for another day, and thank you for being alive this morning and then at the end of the day, thank you for whatever it was that I experienced. And I always go back and I, and look at, I try to come up with at least a minimum of five things it is that I really liked about my day. Or if there's something that really challenged me, I'm grateful for that.
But, what can I do to try to change that? Also, I'm really physically active. Like I do yoga every day and I do weights and I run and I walk. And so physical activity has always been really important for me, and it has been my lifestyle ever since I was a kid and have maintained that. And even though I've been working in this area for 34 years, I have lived experience before growing up on the reserve, and I saw what it looks like.
I saw what it looks like in my own family and in my own community, and so I felt it for many, many years before I, I started working with it and I, I didn't start putting the pieces of the puzzle together for years when I was starting to like, “wait a minute, like this is wrong”. You know, it's wrong for kids to be taken away and removed from their homes when going to school and that kind of stuff.
And so talking for me is, is really important. But also when I run or when I go for my walk, that's, some of that is my processing time because all of us process our stuff in different ways, right? And, and I still talk, and I, I've had a therapist for 30 years, I've been very fortunate. She's retired now, but I still talk to her. And so I have to, I have to do that kind of processing as well.
And I go into ceremony whenever I need it and sometimes when I don't need it, one of my friends, she'll remind me, you have to come back. You need to do this. Because sometimes like as intentional as I am with listening to the different experiences, if I'm not being intentional, some of that energy comes home with me.
And so I go into ceremony for that, to cleanse that, to leave that and know that that isn't mine, and to leave it with whoever it is that needs to do something about that. And then recently, part of my work has started also in writing. Because I'm, I had a time in my career and I'm thinking I have a social responsibility to leave some of the stuff it is that I have learned and to share that because that needs to happen.
And then I always try to make sure I laugh. It's a good thing my husband is funny because he keeps me laughing and, and I cry when I need to cry. And whether it's happy tears or sad tears, right? And there are still experiences that will make me fall my knees and when I feel that I have to feel it.
Brenda Gunn
Thank you, Brenda. I took some notes on that one. Um, literally, notes. Um, it's a really tough question and I, I am not good at it. It was actually one of the considerations I had in taking this job. I spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not I could do this job, um, emotionally, because I knew intellectually in all the sort of areas that I had the competencies, but I didn't know if I had the emotional, uh, bandwidth to do this and to be able to do it in a way that was good for me and good for my family.
Because I intentionally, when I was a lawyer and a professor, I avoided practice for a while because the practice option that was presented was doing individual assessment claims. And I was just like, I can't, I, I, I know myself. And so had sort of set that limit of my ability. And so it is something that I, you know, I really appreciate Brenda saying, being intentional because I think I've been trying to be intentional, but I didn't know I was being intentional about it.
So even having that labeled now to sort of talk about it, and I will say, um, I started my job in September and, as MediaStyle knows, September’s an intense month at the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation. I did something like 16 interviews in six days. And I thought I was okay. And I thought I was okay.
And on Friday morning I was working out with my trainer and I can't remember what it was if I had to do pushups or something. It was hard. And I started crying. I was like, this is too hard. And I was like, oh, I don't think it's the pushups that is too hard. But I was just at the point where my body couldn't hold it in anymore.
Right? So like, because I was physically exerting my body, so it came out. So I think that. Finding that ways to sort of keep yourself good generally, right? That sort of good health as the goal in life. And then setting aside that processing time is just so important and I need to get better and I, I try to do that.
But my other thing that I try to do is just finding where my strength is. And I am super fortunate because I have a little three-year-old daughter and she is an intergenerational Survivor. Her Coco went to residential school and her dad's side of the family has a very long history of residential schools.
So, it's that now I love bedtime. And so I go into bed and I cuddle with her and sing her to sleep. I'm a terrible singer, but fortunately she still—
Caitlin Kealey
She doesn't know yet, it’s okay, don’t tell her.
Brenda Gunn
She doesn’t know yet, yeah exactly. So it’s finding that moment, right? And just like, and I've sort of cried putting her to sleep some days because it's just like, this is why I'm doing this work in a really sort of specific, very tangible way. And she's like, “mommy, why crying?” Right? And it's just like, “mommy loves you and mama is always here for you.”
And so I think for me that's a big part of being able to do this cuz it is really hard some days, a lot of days. And so being clear in why you're doing this work and I think for media professionals who, you know, are doing this work, I hope it's intentional. I hope people aren't getting assigned these stories and doing them begrudgingly or because they're coming up because they're, you know, big stories.
But I think being intentional in wanting to contribute to Canada's understanding of this history and legacy and work towards change and finding the strength and that sort of purpose can, for me, at least, is, is part of that self care.
Brenda Reynolds
Mm-hmm. And the, I I just wanted to add to that too, it's also knowing what our boundaries and what our limits are.
You know, like if, I know there's been a few times where movies have come out, right? And somebody will say, do you wanna go to a movie or, or do you wanna see this? No, I can't. You know, like I just, I can't, some days when I've had heavy days and to go watch a movie for entertainment, like I can't do that.
And, but it's knowing our boundaries and, uh, and, and setting those limits when, when we know that we have maxed out. Or even before we get maxed out.
Caitlin Kealey
I wanna thank you both for opening up that much about your own personal self-care. You may have both made me tear up. I really appreciate it. I know it's not easy to talk about that stuff, but it's important.
And I also now have three kids in my life, which I didn't have during the TRC. I'm a stepmom and my seven year old gives me stickers now. Like she gets guitar stickers and she saves them on my laptop and she's like, she calls me KK. She's like, “KK, when you're sad, I want you to open that sticker that says you rock or whatever because I know sometimes your work makes you sad, but it's important” and it's pretty touching.
Brenda Reynolds
Mm-hmm. It is, it is.
Brenda Gunn
My other tip is waterproof mascara for those who wear makeup, like it's my go-to.
Caitlin Kealey
During the TRC I stopped wearing makeup under my eyes. I literally only use mascara on the top because I was like, I can't look like a raccoon every day at work.
Brenda Gunn
Well, and you never know, like, this is it, right? Like the days you're prepared for are the days that you can handle. It's that like, oh, I'm just going to X or doing this, and it, you know, when you don't think you'll be impacted.
Caitlin Kealey
My very first day with Murray Sinclair, he was speaking at the Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences.
We’re brand new on the TRC. I barely even knew what it was. And because Stephanie Scott was in Winnipeg and Congress was in Ottawa, they sent me with him. I like staffed him like a normal staffer. Sat in front with him. He went up. Hit play on an extremely raw telling of an abuse story. And I bawled, like I bawled.
I had no Kleenex. I like my entire makeup was down my face and I was just like, well, that was a learning experience. And yeah, it was a very interesting first day on the job. But yeah, I learned makeup tips early on.
Brenda Reynolds
And the other thing too is that when you do get triggered unexpectedly, like it's being okay with yourself to say like, it's okay, I'm human.
You know, like I can feel this, and it's okay to feel that. Again because it's that compassion, right? Before we finish though, I also want to talk about the workplace because we've been talking about ourselves and we've been talking about going out, but also to the workplace has a responsibility for the staff.
And this is any at any workplace when we're working with trauma and our workplaces need to have some space for us to, and be okay with us if we need some quiet time. Because again, like when I was saying is that we need to process and everybody processes in different ways and, uh, but a, a quiet room, whether it's, it has candles or a smudge in it, but, or even just a nice big chair to sit in with water and that kind of stuff, but a space where it's okay to go and decompress.
And, and also too is that if, uh, debriefing opportunities can be provided. At the end of tough days or being out in the field, it's an opportunity to debrief, to talk about whatever it was that you experienced because some, sometimes some of these experiences are absolutely new for us, and we didn't think like things like this can happen in Canada to little kids.
Or even to, to parents talking about losing their kids and not knowing where their kids are. And so when we listen to experiences like that, right, and that horror of what people went through, is that we need to have that opportunity to debrief and to talk about that before we take it home and then we can't sleep.
And I've met people who have turned to alcohol or to some substances, right? Because they can't manage what it is that they have heard about Canada. I remember in Cuba telling somebody about residential schools and they said like, that happened in Canada. You know, like, are you sure that happened in Canada?
It's taking off those rose colored glasses, right? And yeah, this happened in Canada. This is what Canada looks like. And so the workplace, if those opportunities can be provided to debrief, to talk about whatever processing it is that needs to take place, I think is really good.
And I also think that if workplaces are expecting their employees to go out and collect these experiences. There's also that responsibility to make sure that this sacred stuff is, continues to be sacred. You know, not only in the material, but the ones that went and gathered that, that information.
We have a responsibility when we hear these experiences. We have a witnessing responsibility. We have that responsibility of what does being a witness mean? What do I do with this? How do I treat this stuff? So I just wanted just to add that in there because it's that, again, witnessing goes into more and more discussions. But just, just to leave with that because it is a sacred responsibility that we hold as well, and what are we going to do with it?
And that is a workplace responsibility as well as a personal one that went and collected that information. Thank you.
Caitlin Kealey
Thanks so much to both of you. I really appreciate it.
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Well, that's it for this week's episode of Ampersand. Thanks for joining us. For more comms and design tips, sign up for our newsletter at emdashagency.ca and follow us on your favorite podcasting app so that you don't miss our next episode.
Ampersand is hosted by Megana Ramaswami and me, Caitlin Kealey. And it's produced by Elio Peterson. This podcast is a project of Emdash, the small agency focused on big impact helping progressives be heard. We recorded our series with Pop Up Podcasting, and our theme music is Courtesy of Wintersleep. I'm Caitlin Kealey, the CEO of Emdash.
Thanks for listening.
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