Hillory Tenute, CEO of Lodge Consulting, reflects on Call to Action 66, confronting residential school denialism, and what a decade of reconciliation work has actually delivered.
In this episode of Ampersand, we sit down with Hillory Tenute, CEO of Lodge Consulting, to discuss the state of reconciliation ten years after the TRC's final report.
Hillory reflects on her time implementing Call to Action 66 and the gap between government commitments and what actually reaches communities on the ground. She speaks candidly about her experience as a racialized Indigenous woman navigating political and government relations, and addresses the rise of residential school denialism and what motivates it. The conversation closes with her hopes for the next decade — stronger language revitalization, land back, and a new generation growing up with access to culture her own family was denied.
This season of Ampersand is dedicated to the 10th anniversary of the TRC and explores its lasting impacts. Through conversations with Survivors, scholars, and advocates, this season reflects on the progress made since the TRC’s final report and Calls to Action, while also addressing the challenges that remain.
This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email media@emdashagency.ca with any questions.
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Caitlin: Welcome to Ampersand, the podcast helping good people be heard and comms people be better.
Megana: Okay, so we have an icebreaker question, Hillory.
Hillory: Okay, great.
Megana: Share a memory from your first computer or your early days on the internet.
Hillory: Oh my goodness. So I am of a generation where we only had one computer in the house, and we had to share it.
And I remember, I remember AOL like very well. And I remember being on chat groups and learning what those were. Nothing salacious like that. But, my first chat group I ever went to was like, it was like a Simpsons forum. And like, I just feel like that is so like Hillory Core now that I think about it.
It was just like, yeah, I wanted to go and talk to people about The Simpsons and I was probably like, must been maybe nine or 10 at that time. Like it was really young. So I am, I am dating myself quite a bit, but then we also, like, we had the dial-up. All that stuff. And I remember like someone picking up the phone, and then it would like ruin your AOL chat. And then eventually we moved the computer into like the living room.
Megana: Yes.
Hillory: And I remember wanting to listen to music and things like that. And it was just like my whole family would be around me and I was like, this is, this is the worst. But that's like, that's as far as I can remember. And it was one computer, and that was, that's more with the internet.
But then I also am from an age of like Duke Nukem. Which was like another game and then another game called Sierra. Sorry, I could go on for hours about this, but yeah, those are, oh my God. What about you?
Megana: Brings back some serious memories. Also the like trauma of moving the main family computer into a main space. I remember that
Hillory: But it was like, it was in my parents' bedroom, so like, I get it. They were probably like, "Get out of our room.” We need to get out; we gotta put it somewhere else. And then just having to like fight for, to have access to it and stuff. It was a privilege to have that in the house and it was this giant like honker of a machine. Like a brick.
Megana: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. That's a very fond memory. I love that. And you know, not to take this from Simpson's chat rooms to something a little heavier, obviously given your expertise and the career that you've built up till now, we thought you would be the right person to ask this question, which is what do you make of the progress that has been made or not been made on the TRCs calls to action over the past decade?
Hillory: With that though, I have to say you do need a lot of lightness in your life to be able to deal with sort of the disappointment of it? I think it really varies for me in multiple ways on where I think like the progress of it is going. in a previous position as an executive director for a national indigenous youth organization, where we were solely focused on implementing call to action 66, which was we call upon the federal government to establish multi-year funding for community-based youth organizations to deliver programs on reconciliation and establish a national network to share information, and that work, and there was a lot of really great work that was being done in that and I think I always wanna give credit where credit is due to the incredible team at that organization who really wanted to mobilize that and make change. However, the way in which that money was received was very conflicted.
And also there was a lot of tensions that were made, and what I really saw was this really interesting, and this is just like one perspective of it. Like here's this general commitment from the liberal government to implement a call to action. But at the same time though, as it's rolling out on the ground, it's still causing a lot of friction to the grassroots organizations that it's supposed to be supporting, and I feel very confident that I can say that.
And even while I was in that position, I still would say that, right? Like it was very clear to everyone in the room that not everyone that should have been at the table or at the table. And that's really what we tried to do in those years was try to transform CTA 66 as being one of the selected indigenous organizations to implement CTA 66.
But how do we create better spaces? And then we had to do that through, effectively operating through the machinery of government. And the reason I'm bringing that up, largely so because I think there's a different perspective that people have on here's what the liberal government is committed to, in order to support, not just call to action 66, but the others, but then this is actually how it gets mobilized on the ground, and that's what's really difficult because once it enters that vacuum, that is Crown Indigenous Services or Indigenous Services Canada, whatever you name it, like those two tend to be the large focal points for how you see a lot of the, CTAs come out.
Megana: Mm-hmm.
Hillory: What ends up happening is the machinery of government is so vast and is so embedded with discrimination, with policies and legislation that don't quite actually make sense of what happens again on the ground, that's what you're left to compete with. And so what ends up getting churned out is while it's a really great intention, it's still not doing what the intention of the call to action was supposed to do. So, thinking about it, something as broad as call to action 66 was, it was still very difficult to take that broadness and put it into scope, if that makes any sense. And that's what the government is asking for when you look at how funding is delivered.
If you're writing a memorandum to cabinet and you're trying to create policy options. It can't be broad. It has to be very specific because the government is so calculated, and as it needs to be. Right? You're dealing with lots of money here. So I understand, and I sympathize with it, but overall, that work that is being done, it's ongoing.
I think at this point, I'm trying to remember, but how many of the calls to action are actually completed at this point?
Megana: I've seen numbers that are between like eight and 12, and like maybe up to 13.
Hillory: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's like, the last time it looked like Yellowhead Institute has always done some incredible tracking.
And as well as like CBC has done some like work as well, but I do believe, yeah, it's around like 13 to 15 at most are being implemented, which I mean, in the grand scheme of things, you can look at it from two different perspectives. One that's clearly not enough. Or two, hey, this government just decided to start implementing these like less than 10 years ago.
It's a lot. You're changing an entire framework of how people understand the indigenous experience and how they understand reconciliation justice, how they recognize restoration, right? That's really what we're looking at here. And so I think it's so hard to say whether they're doing a good job or not a good job.
Because at the same token, I've seen reconciliation in community. I've seen economic reconciliation practices really be advantageous for community members to create jobs, to really become self-sustaining communities, and we're seeing some really amazing stuff. For example, whether this is related to a call to action or not.
Look at one of my neighbouring communities, my sister community, Saugeen First Nation, which essentially just took a over Saugeen Beach, which used to be Sauble Beach for like forever, right? So not forever, but for a while, and that upset a lot of people, but at the same time, for the rest of us, we're like, no, this is what should be happening.
Right. So it's, it's like seeing those, it's those little pieces and those little wins, you're like, yeah, that's it. That's land back. Now, is all of the land back? That's a whole different story. Maybe not. But I mean, these are the small changes that and those are the small wins that I like to see.
That did not answer your question.
Megana: No, it absolutely, totally did. And it did it in such a thoughtful and nuanced way, so I really appreciate that. I love that answer. I do wanna go back a little bit because you did touch on it, and maybe just for our listeners, if you can tell us a little bit more about Call to Action 66.
You know, what it is, why it's so important, and the work around bringing it forward.
Hillory: Yeah, I, I wanna be also like cognizant too that that was a position I held and so
Where it's been mobilized and how it's being tracked and sort of what are the various innovative touch points that are really enhancing it.
I'm not as clear as that. It's one that I think you start seeing other organizations beyond the one that I worked for, which was formerly Canadian Roots Exchange. Now Indigenous Youth Roots, IYR. But I do see like other organizations like the National Association of Friendship Centers, so many others that are using CTA 66 as a leverage point to push the government for funding to support the grassroots organizations that are specifically focused, and this one is specifically focused, on supporting and empowering indigenous youth to become leaders in reconciliation. But at the same token, you still see a significant amount of youth programming that is aligned under that CTA 66 that are pretty unstable. There's fragmented support, and there can be very little accountability.
Again, I wanna give credit where credit is due. The bureaucrats that I worked with- there was a lot of heart, and there was a lot of really good intention to do really good work around CTA 66, but again, so much of it becomes beholden to the actual machinery itself. But those folks that we worked with for those years, like I really do hold them up with such esteem that they were really committed to trying to do the best they could with what process they had in place to implement it. So just to pay respect where it needs to be paid. I don't wanna say that nobody was doing anything. In fact, we saw a lot of our colleagues work really hard in their off hours as well to make sure that indigenous youth voices were being first and foremost highlighted in that work throughout the entire process, which was just something as an indigenous person that has worked in policy for pretty much my entire career I had never seen before. So it was really commendable.
Megana: That's a really nice thing to hear, although, you know, still recognizing the amount of progress that still needs to take place.
So yeah, I really appreciate that. Obviously, now you have this amazing role as a leader of the lodge, but also in your past work in both positions and times in your life, you've really taken part in some very important conversations with leaders and community members and, as a racialized person.
What has been your experience when it comes to political and government relations? I know we just talked about how some bureaucrats are approaching this with all of the good intentions that it needs to be done. But I'm curious about your perspective specifically as a racialized person.
Hillory: Right. So I also want to acknowledge that I am a racialized person that passes as a white person. So there's a lot of extra privilege and opportunity that I'm afforded that maybe other members from my community definitely don't. Right? However, but also as a woman, I see this so often, as an indigenous lobbyist, as a female indigenous lobbyist; that's where I see it the most,
Having this difficulty in entering a space that is largely male-dominated. I'm always like, just get my like toe an inch of the door and I'll kick the door open. Like, I don't care. I will get scrappy. I'm never gonna give up. I'm gonna keep going in there.
But I think what, to answer your question, I have, I have been in some really weird conversations, like just where I think there are times, unless I am not presenting and say one of my many beautiful ribbon skirts made by so many incredible artists. Or wearing such fantastic beadwork that I also make myself, but also is adorned by many different incredible artists across this country, well across Turtle Island.
That often, at times, I think I am mistaken for a non-indigenous person. And so I have been privy to a lot of racist conversations, which is very frightening to me. And this is, especially in this space, I think so often than not, there are still to be this really rather large and incorrect deficit model that gets portrayed on our people.
And we tend to forget about a lot of the resilience that exists as well. I think one of my best examples that I can give is less maybe from like, I'm, I can't say who or whatever, but again, it was in this space and, um, it was really, the conversation was largely about capital. And I'll share this story.
And this person happened to be someone that worked in a particular area that where you source a lot of capital. And you know, they were talking to a crowd of people. There was maybe a handful of us in the room that were indigenous and had said something to the effect of, “Well, you know, like, I'm not like a real capitalist. I'm a capitalist with a heart.”
And I just immediately stopped in my tracks and was just like. “No, sir. Capital does not have a heart.” So I, I stood up and I actually, and this is the thing. So the name given to me is, uh, which means soaring in Big Wind women. And the story behind that, before I get into my other one.
This is just how we do things. We're just gonna be- I love it about this is it: when my mother was pregnant, apparently she walked herself to the hospital while she was in labour, during the Chinook Winds. And then I, I came to be, and so soaring in Big Wind women is me. But even though, you know. It was in Treaty Seven Territory.
I was born in Lethbridge, Alberta. But we're actually from Na and Ming, the Chipewyan First Nation, part of the Saugeen Ojibwe Nation territory. She walks herself there. And then again, I'm born, and so then that's the name given to me. But again, it's also because I'm very loud and you cannot shut me up.
And if I hear something that is incorrect that I don't agree with, I'm gonna come up with gentleness, but I'm going to correct you on it. So. This man says, “Well, I'm not a regular capitalist. I'm a capitalist with a heart.” And I wanted to share a story. One of my language teachers of Anishinaabe Moen, uh, Louise Guro- love and shout-out to the Guro family; love them so much.
They have. There's a big brood of them, and they come in and outta my life at all different times. So Louise told us that the word which we often hear is, thank you. actually doesn't mean thank you. It means enough. And it means enough because when the settlers came, and they were trading, there was no need to say thank you because.
Just imagine a world where there is just reciprocity, and you just take care of your neighbour because that's the right thing to do. It is so much easier to be kind and to be caring than it would be to live in this sort of deficit narrative that's been created. And I do believe that, like, a deficit narrative, but not just that scarcity is a myth.
And I'll get into that. And so as the settlers are trading, they're saying miigwech. Our people are going miigwech, which means enough, enough. And I always think about that because of that one teaching where this man's like, “Well, capital, you know, capital has a heart.” And it was like, it absolutely does not because that's actually what has taken us away from all of this.
And that is where you see all these policies around reconciliation and, or, sorry, not reconciliation, but around in the Indian Act, like this was all about taking over the land. Resource development. That's all it's been, and that's what it'll continue to be. And do not get me started on Bill C-5 and I will, but I mean, this is just it again, we're looking at Bill C-5, which is another methodology to fast-track development, to overpass anything that we've committed to.
We look at the United Declaration Rights of Indigenous people and the action plan that was adopted 2024, I believe it was, on June 21st. I was there at that meeting.
Being there, there was all of this work that was being done on The UN Declaration action plan. This is Canada's action plan. This is how we're going to do it. And the reason I was there is not just because I'm amazing, but no, because our work, while I was the executive director of the organization, there was a piece around Call to Action 66, right? So we were there.
Here's a call to action, here's a roadmap. This is what we think is gonna be next. Then comes Bill C-5, which enters into this, which, cool. We're going to acknowledge that Canada wants to adopt the UN. We love this concept of free prior informed consent. But I think we're really mostly gonna focus on the consent part of it.
Let's ignore the FP and I, and that to me is what I think is the scariest part of this entire process. I was at the Prime Minister's meeting, and I'm so grateful that I got to be in there again. Shout out. Shout out to a, not Don, Andy Garrow, who snuck me in. Again, the Garrows just keep showing up in my life.
But I got to be there on the floor and was so honoured to be able to sit with leadership and hear everybody's perspectives. And there was just this concern in the work that I do now as CEOs Lodge Consulting: I get to work with a number of different chiefs across the nation who have various, every, not at all, communities are the same, and the same thing came back time and time again.
How worried they are that big development is going to come in and take over. Many of them would use the words around reconciliation, but I think a lot of folks were really just focused on, like, this is just hypocrisy. At the end of the day, this isn't what it's supposed to do. And I, I can't speak for them; I can't speak for a chief's experience, but I can speak for my own of just being in that room and hearing that there was a lot of worry.
And I think that there still is. And I, it's, it's interesting to see what's going to happen and, um. I did not answer your question at all on what CTA 66 was, but that was my rant.
Megana:. No, I, I do think you did answer that question about CTA 66, and then you brought it to a place that I think dovetails nicely into our next question because you're talking about the ways that sometimes, the initial intention of something gets disrupted either intentionally or with mal-intent, or sometimes it just happens that way.
But I do wanna talk about something else that's happening with some mal-intent, and it is denialism we're seeing. A real rise of it, you know, over the past few years, residential school denialism. And I'm curious about what advice you might give to, you know, organizations who are focused on confronting it both today and in the future.
Hillory: Ooh, that's a heavy question.
I think the denialism for me, just in general, is just like. Yeah. It's just so wild. Like, I don't even have words for it. Like I just, like, to me, I'm like, what do you mean this didn't happen?
Yeah, no, it did come to my community, like it happened in real time. Like there's, we have so many stories of like. We’re among the Georgian Bay Bluffs and, uh, there's so many stories of like, elders, or not elders, but like family members hiding their children in those bluffs, right when the Indian agent came and stuff.
And like, that's stuff, like, those are stories I grew up with, you know, and like, I can't see anyone ever making that up. How else do you explain the loss of language and the loss of culture and, you know, why else would we, or even just this denialism, like, well, what was the TRC about then?
Right? Like, what, what was the point of all of that? Like, what, what those stories, the, all of those people are making that up is what you're essentially saying. So I don't think this is the right answer, but I just think that all those people are cuckoo bananas. And so like, I just go like, no, that's, that's a mental health issue clearly.
But I also understand where that rhetoric comes from, which is like the extreme alt-right. I think what's so interesting, and I can only speak so loosely on a project that I'm on, is this denialism, which also I think. I understand denialism as a concept is like, we're actually going to pretend like these things, pretend we're going to deny that these events ever happened.
Right. But then I feel like then there's this also notion around denialism that plays itself well with Pretend Indian too. So that there, these two are obviously like they're linked, and I do think that it continues to go back to this extraction of resources, which was always about, you know, there's a growing rise of communities, of pretend Indians coming into communities, somehow receiving status through indigenous services Canada.
And then taking over the complete band office and removing any hereditary membership from it just to work with resources, just to work with large development, to build in those areas and to take over the land. And there's so clear to be a root of this, of those individuals where genealogical reports have been done to say, no, none of these people actually have status.
Then none of them are actually related to here, but yet somehow it's a quote-unquote bureaucratic error, which I don't, in my heart of heart believes like. It was like, no, this erosion of indigenous people has been strategic since day one. I don't think it's overly complicated to see that, and it continues to happen.
And I think also the denialism, whether you actually believe it or not. Or to have that ideology imbued into your own core belief system, which can happen. And we see that all the time, especially within the alt-right. And I will say too, and largely in some places in the left, the extreme left, like there are certain aspects of that.
Like we have to hold both, like with heavy hands. But at the end of the day, the whole purpose around that is really just about, like, well, if this entitlement doesn't work, then why are we creating all this legislation and policy around truth and reconciliation if that's not a real thing? We don't actually have to give these individuals any money or any of their land back because it never really happened.
So it's, I don't know. I think that, in terms of people that are trying to work on that, I think it just comes with a lot of heart and a lot of care and just, really speaking to the real people who have been part of that, but in a really safe way. There's a ton of resources out there. I think combating denialism is essentially just combating bad ideology and scary, scary people. Yeah. I wish them well. I wish them all well. That's it.
Megana: Bless your heart during this situation.
Hillory: Bless your heart. You know, but it's scary though because I, I can say that from here in my apartment in all in Ottawa on Algonquin Unceded territory. But what's the real lived experience on the day-to-day is just the erasure of our people.
And just the absolute racism and discrimination that exists on those day-to-day interactions with individuals.
Megana: I think there was so much wisdom in what you just said in terms of connecting all of these to past processes, you know, whether it's the exploitation of indigenous peoples through land, through resources, and now through cultural capital or, you know, any other, you know, gift that's held.
It does seem like there's sort of an intentional process. Yeah. Sorry, gimme one second. I feel like there's a train. There is a train. I don't know if anybody can hear it.
Hillory: I heard a little bit, but it wasn't that bad.
Megana: Okay. Gimme two seconds. I'm just gonna shut the, yeah.
Okay, we should be good. Okay. There was so much wisdom there, and I guess like, it's, it's a perfect segue to the next question that I've got, and you kind of touched on this at the end, and I just was wondering if you can expand on it. for the organizations that are that they, they do want to commit to reconciliation.
What should they be doing to support First Nations, Metis, Inuit groups who are, you know, striving forward for that self-determined future and sovereignty? What should other organizations be doing if they're listening to our conversation right now? Yeah.
Hillory: On a serious note, I do think it's about making that space and amplifying whatever levers to power that you have to put those people in the right spaces.
Again, that teaching of like, no one should go without and you only take as much as you need. I think is really important in that, in those aspects and just recognizing, like, when you're in those spaces, who's not at the table and making sure that they're in there. And I think speaking up. And then on another serious note, but also being a little bit funny.
Money, please. Like it's. Like, it's actually like we're living in a capitalist system. In order for these communities to do the work that they need to do, it does cost money to do those things. And so often than not. When we're looking at something like supporting a community or an endeavour to be self-determining, the majority of the time there are so many other things that are happening in the background that need to be attended to, right?
And so I think that's part of the approach is like, how do you make sure that this is Indigenous-led? How are you enhancing capacity? So I don't like when I hear folks going, we're gonna build capacity; I was like, no, the capacity's already there. There's already capacity there. But how do we enhance it to make sure that they can connect to the things that are important to them in their community, but how can you also support? And I think a lot of the time it really does. Sometimes it just comes down to money and time, and that's just the nature. That's just capitalism, baby. That is what we're working with.
Megana: And it makes so much sense because those are both tangible and intangible ways that folks can support.
But the tangible ones, that is what allows you to leverage capacity that's there. That makes so much sense. Absolutely. Yeah.
Hillory: And apologies for the candour on being like, money please. But like, it's like, uh, I could only have a sense of humour. Because that's just how this world is, right? Like if you can't laugh about these things, I don't know.
I don't know how else my people have survived this long. We have some of the best senses of humour, and um, but yes, donations would be really greatly appreciated, and I think that those go a really long way. Flexible funding goes a very long way, allowing for the communities to define what they need to do with those funds and the flexibility to do it without such ambiguous report writing that takes up days and days, which is just even more administrative time, taking away from the actual work that needs to be done on the ground.
Megana: That's such a good point. And honestly, for the record, I feel like after centuries, millennia of extraction. It's about time you get to ask money please.
Hillory: Amen. Money please.
Megana: Money, please.
Hillory: Yeah. And I'm just being nice. I'm saying please at the end of it.
Megana: There you go.
Hillory: No, just money.
Megana: Hundred percent. No, I'm here for this.
Hillory: And then give us some land back.
Megana: That too. That's a huge part.
Hillory: We'll do great things with it. You know,
Megana: That is a guarantee. Yeah. That's like one thing that's been proven through everything is that-
Hillory: Totally
Megana: -wonderful things come from both of those.
Hillory: Absolutely.
Megana: Money and land given to indigenous peoples for sure. Yeah. Um, you know, we're now 10 years post TRC. What, where do you think we're gonna be in another 10 years?
Hillory: Oh, that is a good question.
I wanna be really positive about something, because I think about this work a lot when, um, I try and look at it from a macro and then a micro scale, right? So from a macro scale, it's still early days to see where this administration in Canada is going to take it. Again, we'll bring up Bill C-5 again and again, about like how I feel like that's going to challenge, impede on some of the work that's being done.
We're seeing a significant cut that's happening to Indigenous Services Canada as we speak. So like, it's, it's a, it's a bit of, um, there is a bit of a, it's a bit of scarcity. Even though I said scarcity is a myth. Scarcity is a myth. There's lots of funds, there's lots of money out there. We just need to, we just need to find it.
What I see happening in the next 10 years is I hope to see our language get stronger. I hope to see more opportunities for land back, for development to be solely in the hands of indigenous people. These are my hopes, and I, I don't know; I can't predict the future, but what I can see is that in the next seven generations that our people will be stronger.
Because there are individuals and leaders that I'm so lucky to work with. That I see day to day doing the work and not giving up. I remember recently with a client, a non-indigenous client, and they were just really bogged down on some of the work that they were trying to do. And basically they were trying to, they're trying to do some reconciliation action plan work in their organization.
And one of the things that we were able to do through, like, the guidance of myself and as well as Emdash that was on the team, was around how do we change our internal policy or financial controls so that you can pay elders better. And they did that. They were able to do that, and they were just like, there's just so much.
And I was like, yeah, welcome to being an Indigenous person. It takes one thing at a time. And it was like, that's a win though. The fact that you were able to get your financial team to finally look at there's a better way that we can flow through this money so it's not impacting, you know, indigenous elders, you name it.
That's a small win. It's very small, like it is. And I recognize that 'cause there's more to be done, but it's a win and people are willing to do the change and do the work. So I don't see it being a big measure. I do see it being a lot of change. I am very excited about Minister Mandy Goma right now.
Like how, and like her team, her chief of staff, she has got an incredible team underneath her. You know, looking at the Minister of CNAC as well, like we have some really incredible leaders that want to do the work. And this is the first time for me where I'm really excited, um, to really work in partnership with Indigenous Services Canada because I do see there's going to be some real hard change because she gets it.
She understands. So in that 10-year span of what I look like, from what it looks like for policy or legislation change. I have a lot of good hope, and then I look at my nephews, and this is where I'm gonna get emotional. When I look at my nephews, and I give them something, and they just say like, miigwech auntie, like they say thank you to me.
That just warms my heart. Or we see a statue of a bear and they go makwa, and the fact that they're learning the language at such a young age is something that I certainly didn't have the privilege of, that I know my mother certainly didn't have the privilege of, and that my grandma had not the privilege, not at all the privilege, but had that taken away from her at that age.
So we're talking the ages of four and two, and that's how old those boys are. So when I look at those past four generations, you have one person, my grandmother and my grandfather, who had that language taken away from them at four and two. You have my mother, who never spoke a word of that at the ages of four and two; we didn't really speak the words.
It wasn't until we got a little bit older, we started learning about it. And now you have my nephews, four and two, and they can- they're learning to speak the language. So when we look at reconciliation as an act to ensure that we're creating the right tools for this young generation. That's where my hope goes is in them.
I see my older brother doing a lot of work across like, the world and stuff, and he does really fun things and he tours on bands, but he also makes sure that he goes home and he lives on the land. That is such a priority for him. And I don't remember that as he wasn't like that growing up. And now he is. And I, and then I see my younger brother, whose father of these two beautiful boys, making sure that they're learning these things. You know, like really making sure that they're growing up in a good way to see that and my and my mother doing that work and being a grandma, being Nookomis to like really ensure that she's fostering and we're honing and making sure that they, they love wearing the regalia.
They love going to powwow. They like that it's their favourite thing, and they go to what is called Indigenous Head Start, which always, I think needs more funding. And they love it. Like they have a regalia day where they all wear just their various regalia; it's like, it's the cutest thing in the world.
And, and then you have folks like myself that are working on policy to like create different pathways for those boys, for when they get older, should they choose to do so, become incredible leaders if, if that's what they wanna do, or if they just wanna live mino-bimaadiziwin, which is a good life. And that to me is enough.
So that's where I see reconciliation in 10 years.
Caitlin: Well, that's it for this week's episode of Ampersand. Thanks for joining us.
For more comms and design tips, sign up for our newsletter at emdashagency.ca and follow us on your favourite podcasting app so that you don't miss our next episode. Ampersand is hosted by Megana Ramaswami and me, Caitlin Kealey, and it's produced by Elio Peterson. This podcast is a project of Emdash, the small agency focused on big impact, helping progressives be heard.